Curse

Bryant Again · Dec 02, 2009, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

If you put it that way, all skills are godmode, cos they are all easy to us.

Is your playstyle an exception, then?

FyrFytr998 · Dec 02, 2009, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I could care less about them, and so should everyone else, including you. They're not the point here. The point is the game.

You're right. It should be about the game. Only thing is that ANET has made so many missteps, that for a lot of players it stopped being about the game a long time ago. It became a place where a players net worth in ecto outweighs their play ability.

I'll even do you one better. I am gonna follow your advice and not care anymore either. No matter how I see my position or yours. Ultimately, ANET is going to impose their position. Obviously high end PvE content being pwnt by smart build makers offends them as game designers. And all these farming builds past and present show the lack of play testing on their part.

All this typing is taking away from my fun time. Nerf away ANET. It'll be a matter of days before the next big thing comes along and the QQer's are back in your ear calling for a fresh set of nerfs "for the integrity of the game" so they can maintain their status as the wealthiest players in their pretend world.

Bryant Again · Dec 02, 2009, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by FyrFytr998

You're right. It should be about the game. Only thing is that ANET has made so many missteps, that for a lot of players it stopped being about the game a long time ago. It became a place where a players net worth in ecto outweighs their play ability.

At least for a few.

The question is how much does ANet have to gain in nerfing multiple farming builds? How much to lose? A question with no clear-cut answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FyrFytr998

...Obviously high end PvE content being pwnt by smart build makers offends them as game designers...

While I do consider it smart, one build should not be able to defeat an area designed for eight. One skill bar should not be able to defeat multiple skill bars. Nor should the "normal" team composition be nearly entirely composed of one specific build.

In regards to "not enough play-testing", some things take a long, long time to come to form.

pumpkin pie · Dec 02, 2009, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Is your playstyle an exception, then?

not sure what you mean by that, are you saying every players should play the same way?

Bryant Again · Dec 02, 2009, 07:49 AM // 07:49

I'm more pointing out that playstyles vary. You yourself have said you aren't able to use an SF build too well. That doesn't point to the build being faulty, more that you may have troubles with it.

Bristlebane · Dec 02, 2009, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Wouldn't it be fun if Anet made some dungeon areas with mostly Perma-shadows in it? Of course a few extra counters as you as a player know how to counter it before you enter. So counter is by an unstrippable Shadow Form monster skill.

How do you think the poor Raptors feels when you trash their young and kill their mother :P

manitoba1073 · Dec 02, 2009, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Lmao nice to see in 13 months since I left GW nothings changed here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

At least for a few.
The question is how much does ANet have to gain in nerfing multiple farming builds? How much to lose? A question with no clear-cut answer..

They have far more to lose nerfing multiple farming builds then not nerfing them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

While I do consider it smart, one build should not be able to defeat an area designed for eight. One skill bar should not be able to defeat multiple skill bars. Nor should the "normal" team composition be nearly entirely composed of one specific build.

Yes Because we all know how its required to take 8 ppl into FoW or UW
(sarcasm) incase you didnt get that. Yes that one build is so smashing the area that they have to skip almost 90% of it to do it.

And such for "normal" team compositions, Truelly funny that you say that. Because the truth is that there is no "normal" team composition.

While the Q_Q continues here I'm off again enjoying another game.

Bryant Again · Dec 02, 2009, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

They have far more to lose nerfing multiple farming builds then not nerfing them.

Great job. Unfortunately it's usually implied that when a person makes a statement that they should also explain such a stance.

In this case I do feel that they have something to lose in attempting to nerf farming, but also much to gain. There are quite a few people who only appreciate GW for the "soloing", which is like going to a rock concert to admire people's shoes.

In regards to what can be gained, anything that puts GW on more of a set track will inspire and encourage quite a few of the players that ANet have dismayed. This isn't to say putting more of a stomp on farming will bring them back, rather that it's the first step of several.

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Yes that one build is so smashing the area that they have to skip almost 90% of it to do it.

If one build, one skill bar, one whole character, is able to take on several skill bars, builds, characters, then something in the game design is incredibly faulty. Simply put.

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

And such for "normal" team compositions, Truelly funny that you say that. Because the truth is that there is no "normal" team composition.

The "norm" is defined as the "average", and when the norm is not a wide variety of characters and builds for an area and instead, say, one build, then again something in the game design is incredibly faulty - especially considering the numerous amounts of classes within GW.

manitoba1073 · Dec 02, 2009, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Great job. Unfortunately it's usually implied that when a person makes a statement that they should also explain such a stance.

In this case I do feel that they have something to lose in attempting to nerf farming, but also much to gain. There are quite a few people who only appreciate GW for the "soloing", which is like going to a rock concert to admire people's shoes.

In regards to what can be gained, anything that puts GW on more of a set track will inspire and encourage quite a few of the players that ANet have dismayed. This isn't to say putting more of a stomp on farming will bring them back, rather that it's the first step of several..

Unfortuantely those are fewer than the ones Anet dismayed by the changes they have made in regards to such things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

If one build, one skill bar, one whole character, is able to take on several skill bars, builds, characters, then something in the game design is incredibly faulty. Simply put..

Yes because some people just refuse to add 1 little itty skill on there own bars to counter said build, said skill bar. Perfect example - SF was used extensively in PvP, Simple answer was take a dischant signet. WoW so simple even a cave man could have done, yet what was the reply from the so called community, Why should they have to change there skill bars and instead ran whinning to Mommy Anet to change. Simple put you know not as much as you try to claim you do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

The "norm" is defined as the "average", and when the norm is not a wide variety of characters and builds for an area and instead, say, one build, then again something in the game design is incredibly faulty - especially considering the numerous amounts of classes within GW.

The average is what any one happens to throw on the skill bar whenever they feel like. The game was how you wanted to play it whether it was solo play or group play or what ever build they wanted to have.

It was the so called "upper" community that required players to run certain sets of builds, not forced on by Anet at all, but by the community itself. Even though most of any kind of builds would work.

Tenebrae · Dec 02, 2009, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Yes because some people just refuse to add 1 little itty skill on there own bars to counter said build, said skill bar. Perfect example - SF was used extensively in PvP, Simple answer was take a dischant signet. WoW so simple even a cave man could have done, yet what was the reply from the so called community, Why should they have to change there skill bars and instead ran whinning to Mommy Anet to change. Simple put you know not as much as you try to claim you do.

You dont get it dont you ?. Let me expand your little GW knowledge with 2 words "cover enchant" . Anyway thats not the matter , dont go offtopic , now answer this :
- Why 98% of elite skills have bloody lots of counters and SF combo has so so SO few ? Why should 1 skill combo OVERCOME 98% of GW skills ?.
No one is QQing here about not knowing to counter it dude.

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

The average is what any one happens to throw on the skill bar whenever they feel like. The game was how you wanted to play it whether it was solo play or group play or what ever build they wanted to have.

Yeah more of that "if you dont like it dont use it" and "how does someone using SF affect YOUR game play" BS pointless arguments to defend SF.

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

It was the so called "upper" community that required players to run certain sets of builds, not forced on by Anet at all, but by the community itself. Even though most of any kind of builds would work.

No one is forced but there are ppl that are not stupid and if they can pack a colt m4a1 to a battle they will pick that weapon instead a stupid sword and a wand , got it ? ...... dear god when will this **** end ? maybe with the skill update ? god i hope so.

PS: Still can smell fear in this thread .

Gun Pierson · Dec 02, 2009, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

In this case I do feel that they have something to lose in attempting to nerf farming, but also much to gain. There are quite a few people who only appreciate GW for the "soloing", which is like going to a rock concert to admire people's shoes.

The "norm" is defined as the "average", and when the norm is not a wide variety of characters and builds for an area and instead, say, one build, then again something in the game design is incredibly faulty - especially considering the numerous amounts of classes within GW.

People can play 90% of the game's areas using balanced or whatever composition of classes in a team as long as the team finds the sweet spot between offense and defense.

There are a couple of areas left where the true powercreep rules. Playing an area for 4 hours to receive like 10k if you're lucky is just not fun. Because most of the veterans already played the game several times and did the elite stuff playing 'balanced' anyway.

Why do people use Shadow Form? Because it's the most efficient way of farming some stuff in a game where rewards suck. A few elite areas still drop some worthy stuff but they're guarded by the powercreep.

Not all skills can be equally effective, it's the nature of the beast, unless you give everybody one skill that does 50 damage and that's it. But that's not GW. GW is a game with a lot of different types of skills like MTG.

The gods use godly creeps in their area, so the tools to beat them should have 'godly' qualities too if balanced can't counter them. The average skilled player can't beat UW or DoA balanced and they don't know how to use shadow form. And in a way that's what an elite area stands for. However, a group of players can farm it, but that group is certainly not casual. So we're left with power traders and 'pro' farmers who have an intrest in the subject.

Ofourse both the powertraders/rich people in the game and Anet are not shun for a nerf because the rich want to secure their gold and Anet wants to drag on the game until GW2 so it takes more grind to get some of the silly titles.

Fix rewards,
Fix powercreep,
Fix silly titles,
After that they might actually have a point to nerf shadow form.

So yeah a skill with godmode characteristics shouldn't be in the game, but neither should be godlike creeps/bosses and crappy rewards for the time invested. RPG's have always been about character progression and cool stuff and GW PvE is no different. Hell, even PvP players want the cool stuff so they can die in style.

Bryant Again · Dec 02, 2009, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Unfortuantely those are fewer than the ones Anet dismayed by the changes they have made in regards to such things.

I'm glad you have the figures to back up that claim, and the figures of how many would actually be indifferent about such a decision.

...wait.

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Yes because some people just refuse to add 1 little itty skill on there own bars to counter said build, said skill bar. Perfect example - SF was used extensively in PvP, Simple answer was take a dischant signet. WoW so simple even a cave man could have done, yet what was the reply from the so called community, Why should they have to change there skill bars and instead ran whinning to Mommy Anet to change. Simple put you know not as much as you try to claim you do.

It took me about 10 minutes to understand what you just typed.

I think what you're attempting to say is that instead of nerfing a skill, we should change the enemy's skillbars? Well that's the same thing as a nerf in PvE land, but such a change only applies to a couple builds.

ANet would have to go and actually adjust the AI accordingly in a much more global fashion and have it react in a certain manner to certain builds (i.e. if the enemy encounters an SF sin, don't throw everything they got at it) for any sort of impact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

The average is what any one happens to throw on the skill bar whenever they feel like. The game was how you wanted to play it whether it was solo play or group play or what ever build they wanted to have.

An argument that can be applied in defense of anything and everything isn't something to go around spouting.

Bristlebane · Dec 02, 2009, 02:51 PM // 14:51

New Shadow Form skill leaked out on the net:

Shadow Form
Elite Enchantment Spell. (5...18...21 seconds.) 50...90% chance of hostile spells targeting you fail, and 90...50% chance of attacks against you miss. (50% failure chance with Critical strikes 9 or less.)

(Ok I was trolling, but wouldn't it be a nice skill change?)

FyrFytr998 · Dec 02, 2009, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Yeah more of that "if you dont like it dont use it" and "how does someone using SF affect YOUR game play" BS pointless arguments to defend SF.

Yet, not one person who is Anti-SF and used the personally affected argument has come up with a valid reason as to how they are affected personally by someone else using SF for SC's and farming. Since they have no answer they just dismiss the question all together. I can at least respect Bryant's position that ANET did not intend for the game to be played this way, so since it's their world, they will change it as they see fit. No arguing fact right there. But you say the above is pointless and BS without even saying why it is so. Ultimately this type of back and forth arguing is more personal than factual.

So one last time. To the players that argue they are personally affected by SF abuse. Please explain how. Knowing that you personally have the ability to play GW as you see fit regardless of what some other person is doing. The only way to render this line of questioning pointless is to provide an answer. And jumping on Bryant's bandwagon doesn't answer the "personal" aspect of my question either. I have a pretty good idea that the only counterpoint that could be made for personal affectation is that one's leet status has been impugned.

Tenebrae · Dec 02, 2009, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by FyrFytr998

Yet, not one person who is Anti-SF and used the personally affected argument has come up with a valid reason as to how they are affected personally by someone else using SF for SC's and farming.

Wrong question.
32493465 Threads about SF and SCs and you still didnt get that THAT is not the point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FyrFytr998

Since they have no answer they just dismiss the question all together. No arguing fact right there. But you say the above is pointless and BS without even saying why it is so. Ultimately this type of back and forth arguing is more personal than factual.

Thats because smart ppl gets tired of repeating and answering the same BS question / lame arguments to defend SF or SCs again and again and again. Then some more absurd arguments came up, like "i need SF to make my obsidian armor" and stuff like that ..... honesly , do you understand now why some of us get tired ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FyrFytr998

So one last time. To the players that argue they are personally affected by SF abuse. Please explain how. Knowing that you personally have the ability to play GW regardless of what some other person is doing. The only way to render this line of questioning pointless is to provide an answer. And jumping on Bryant's bandwagon doesn't answer the "personal" aspect of my question either. I have a pretty good idea that the only counterpoint that could be made for personal affectation is that one's leet status has been impugned.

For the 32493466th time , that has nothing to do with the SF and or SC problem and im tired of saying same stuff so many times. Another thing that has nothing to do with that is how many titles do i have , how many time ive spent in GW or how much ingame money i have ; dont follow that line of thoughts , it will only lead to insults and "personal" aspects i think you are trying to avoid .

jshrimp3 · Dec 02, 2009, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Wrong question.
32493465 Threads about SF and SCs and you still didnt get that THAT is not the point.

Thats because smart ppl gets tired of repeating and answering the same BS question / lame arguments to defend SF or SCs again and again and again. Then some more absurd arguments came up, like "i need SF to make my obsidian armor" and stuff like that ..... honesly , do you understand now why some of us get tired ?

For the 32493466th time , that has nothing to do with the SF and or SC problem and im tired of saying same stuff so many times. Another thing that has nothing to do with that is how many titles do i have , how many time ive spent in GW or how much ingame money i have ; dont follow that line of thoughts , it will only lead to insults and "personal" aspects i think you are trying to avoid .

So copy and paste this supposed grand point that you have that you're tired of repeating, instead of taking the effort to explain that you're tired of repeating yourself.

Again, I don't use SF. The use of SF has not affected me in any way. I'm finding PUGs to do missions perfectly fine. Not as much as there used to be, sure, but that's more to do with a stale game, and less to do with SF directly. I don't hoard ectos like a fat kid who thinks the world is going to run out of cake, so the fact that ecto prices may be cheaper doesn't affect me either.

Really the only legitimate effect SF has on GW is that ToA is busy and ectos aren't all that expensive. If you want to go questing and do missions, you can find PUGs or join a PvE guild. Is it as easy to do as it was 3 years ago? Of course not. But SF isn't to blame for that, the simple fact of the matter is that most people have played through this shit over and over again and don't really have any interest in going through Borlis Pass.

Bobby2 · Dec 02, 2009, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

For the 32493466th time , that has nothing to do with the SF and or SC problem and im tired of saying same stuff so many times. Another thing that has nothing to do with that is how many titles do i have , how many time ive spent in GW or how much ingame money i have ; dont follow that line of thoughts , it will only lead to insults and "personal" aspects i think you are trying to avoid .

I will translate:

"SF does not affect me. I QQ for the sake of QQing."

SlipknotOFA · Dec 02, 2009, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Thank god this makes me happy hopefully they nerf it until its useless

EPO Bot · Dec 02, 2009, 07:37 PM // 19:37

I swear, the moment SF is killed of i will make an Assassin.

Bristlebane · Dec 02, 2009, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlipknotOFA

Thank god this makes me happy hopefully they nerf it until its useless

The keyword here is hopefully, knowing how well Anet have "nerfed" the skill before :P